Some Reasons Why Incarceration Does Not Work Very Well

[wildcat7]

wildcat - the US government does 'mandate' education in the US...until the age of 16.

I know that, I mean longer time in school! (like 6 days and from 7 am until 7 pm, for example)!

[wildcat7]

We are so spoiled in the United States...sometimes to our own demise!

[Puzzled]

Per James Gray Former US Supreme Court Judge......"Prison space should be reserved for people we are afraid of ....not people we are mad at" .   

[Dazzler]

Maybe you can give some examples of which is which?  Who are you afraid of and who do you think the People of the State of Illinois should be afraid of, rather than mad at?  I've tried to think of a crime that would be sentenced for 'being mad at' and I can't think of any....I'm afraid of drunk drivers, I'm afraid of addicts that rob and steal people for their fixes, I'm obviously afraid of rapists and murderers...who is being punished because we're mad at them?  Even my own inmate was a jerk when he drank and chaulked up seven DUI's...yes, I would've been afraid to be on the streets when he was driving too....I'm curious what others think about the justice's quote...maybe I'll think of a crime I wouldn't want someone arrested for just out of anger...and not a fear for the public...

Now this is an interesting topic...

[Puzzled]

Wildcat I know you read the recent post and likely many more just like it.  Struggling LO's barely keeping their and their families heads above water, if that ....and inmates ticked because it's automatic with them they are expect (demand) the phone service to be available to them and monies for their comissary be there on time.
 Prison manufacturing such as with China, Manufacture for open market sale would put the responsiblity of payment for incarceration back on their shoulders. Their payscales higher from the profits thereby  Taxpayers not paying for the bulk of everybodies keep.  Phones and spending monies cease being the  responsiblity of outside LO....Just like in the real outside world. You want  better....work harder.  Screw it up and your in Seg with you basic Soy diet, no comissary, or calls.  And by the way...no family cannot send monies or provide a phone service...you gotta earn it yourself or go without!!  That may sound harsh but in truth I think most would jump at the chance to immediately be placed at a real job with real pay even if it includes paying there own way....School oh yeah you do that after work and that could earn you an advancement to the better paying job once you've proven yourself.  If that doesn't appeal to you as an inmate, you get the barest of basics and no outside to help get it for you.  It may sound far fetched  but it might get some of their heads out of the self entitlement world of too much thinking time ...LOL  . 

[Puzzled]

Okay Daz, off the top of my hat...
Driving on revoked or suspended liscenses with no dui's, nor accidents. 
Those who get locked up for child support issues.  Not condoning but neither do I think imprisonment is going to do anything but suspend the child's chances of getting any moneys if ever...longer. 
Those caught with drugs (especially pot) but not selling, robbing, or committing violent acts or showing agression.   
Those are off the top of my head Daz. 

     

[Puzzled]

Oh and the homeless guy picked up that deliberately kicked the cop just so he would get an assault charge so he can spend winter with a roof over his head and 3 squares.  Which Ironically does it every winter he's out.  LOL 

[wildcat7]

You said a mouth full, Puzzled!!!!! 

[wildcat7]

Okay Daz, off the top of my hat...
Driving on revoked or suspended liscenses with no dui's, nor accidents. 
Those who get locked up for child support issues.  Not condoning but neither do I think imprisonment is going to do anything but suspend the child's chances of getting any moneys if ever...longer. 
Those caught with drugs (especially pot) but not selling, robbing, or committing violent acts or showing agression.   
Those are off the top of my head Daz. 

     

Yes, this is interesting...

[Dazzler]

The homeless guy that kicked the cop would get a few months in a county jail...
numerous driving on revokeds are considered the same as DUI's in Illinois....and charged the same if you ever had one DUI in your past..

Child support avoiders that are locked up used to have to come up with some monies before they are released and it went directly to the mother/child.  Sometimes people need a wake up call because they scoff at all the other chances they've had....

[Puzzled]

Okay I had to reread your post Daz...Obviously figured out what I listed off the top of my head, are those things I wouldn't be afraid of..... but rank more as society being mad at,  with the laws the law mentality.  The things that I deem as "afraid of" is much of the same that you posted. Basically those that use aggression, violence, and physically try intentionally or under the influence to hurt or kill somebody.  However in a case with a DUI their was turning 19 years old,  honor student on his way to college, no problems with the law and one day picked up his buddies for a party.  He got drunk along with his buddies, the car went off road overturned and his best friend he grew up with died.  Had no previous record.  I believe my son said he is now in his 8th year in prison and remorse and self loathing over the years have now turned to bitterness and contempt of society and the legal system.  

I myself know of another boy years ago and same thing with his girlfriend, tried to hang himself.  Yes I understand the tolls Dui's take very well and I live in the DUI capital State.  It turns my stomach that some just repeat and repeat and repeat till someone someone gets injured or dies.   But in the case where there were no priors, basically nothing else found in terms of a former arrest record.  Are we putting them there facing murder prison charges because the deceased parents are mad and looking for  pain relief (to which there really is none)  In these instances are these kids really someone to fear at the time of the happening or once they get out of the prison conditoning .  Were they put there because of "mad" or "fear" ?

[veracity]

Thank you Puzzled.   Nowadays it's is all about blame and making sure someone "pays". Back in the 70's I knew of several incidents of kids(19 legal back then) out partying, had an accident & best friend killed or brain damaged forever. None were ever imprisoned. Back then the "victim" shared some accountability as they were just as drunk as the driver. The penalty of living forever with the guilt of killing your best bud was enough to satisfy a debt to society.

[mamacita1]

wildcat - the US government does 'mandate' education in the US...until the age of 16.

I know that, I mean longer time in school! (like 6 days and from 7 am until 7 pm, for example)!

Why would ANY parent want their children in school for those long hours and 6 days a week?  So that someone else can take over the PARENTAL responsibility as the primary educator?  And WHO will pay the overworked and underappreciated, underpaid educators?  

Now back on the topic:  there are times where a wake-up call with a stint in prison DOES work.  I know several people who went in for drugs and believe prison actually saved their lives.  

Having said that, did you all hear about an Ohio women who got sentenced to a felony crime (10 years) for having falsified documents that allowed her children to go to a more desireable school district?  The judge supsended the sentence to 10 or 20 days (can't remember) to county jail.  

I don't believe the sentence fit the crime, but unfotunately, our system is not perfect.  I have often read in newspapers of convictions with a light sentence for heinus crimes.  

Bottom line: I'd rather live in this country than any other country in the world and am proud to be an American that has been afforded amazing opportunities - the same opportunities that are available to all citizens.
 

[Puzzled]

The homeless guy that kicked the cop would get a few months in a county jail...
numerous driving on revokeds are considered the same as DUI's in Illinois....and charged the same if you ever had one DUI in your past..

Child support avoiders that are locked up used to have to come up with some monies before they are released and it went directly to the mother/child.  Sometimes people need a wake up call because they scoff at all the other chances they've had....

IF ever you had one DUI all the driving on revokes are considered the same as DUI's ?  Yet if that person had not had a DUI in years regardless of their soberiety behind the wheel it's considered one and the same thing?  So is Illinois saying if your driving on a revoked you might as well  drive drunk , same thing ...Great message!!!  But then again if you have enough money to pay out for each DUI it doesn't even matter if it results in accidents you can drive again, and again, and again....Just don't kill or injure anybody.  Sorry this one in my way of thinking isn't mad or fear...just about the legal system and money.  And your state isn't the only one...trust me.
        

[bmonska]

Why would ANY parent want their children in school for those long hours and 6 days a week?  So that someone else can take over the PARENTAL responsibility as the primary educator?  And WHO will pay the overworked and underappreciated, underpaid educators?  

Now back on the topic:  there are times where a wake-up call with a stint in prison DOES work.  I know several people who went in for drugs and believe prison actually saved their lives.  

Having said that, did you all hear about an Ohio women who got sentenced to a felony crime (10 years) for having falsified documents that allowed her children to go to a more desireable school district?  The judge supsended the sentence to 10 or 20 days (can't remember) to county jail.  

I don't believe the sentence fit the crime, but unfotunately, our system is not perfect.  I have often read in newspapers of convictions with a light sentence for heinus crimes.  

Bottom line: I'd rather live in this country than any other country in the world and am proud to be an American that has been afforded amazing opportunities - the same opportunities that are available to all citizens.
 

I remember that mama and it was 10 days in county BUT what bothered me about that is, yes the judge had to do his job but, now that this woman has a felony conviction, she can't continue getting her nursing degree! With a felony on her record, she can't do the job she had hoped to do. I think that's sad.

[Puzzled]

Child support avoiders that are locked up used to have to come up with some monies before they are released and it went directly to the mother/child.  Sometimes people need a wake up call because they scoff at all the other chances they've had....

        
Wouldn't it make more sense to take those avoiding child support and put them in an ATC to serve time rather then prison?  If I understand what ATC facilities it's kind of a half way house arrestNot a regular prison enviornment but not freedom ether.  They do have to go out and get a job, that paycheck or portion of mandated to pay towards a set amount required by the courts and they don't get released till it's paid.  If there not agreeable the option then is prison...there choice?  Just an idea of a dead beat dads house.  

[Dazzler]

LOL..good idea but there isn't enough room for the inmates to get into ATC's....it's amazing how they manage to come up with a couple thousand bucks when they want to get out of prison though....my ex-BIL did the same thing...my sister got a small portion of the $170.000 he owes her...the county prosecuted him, she didn't..she gave up years ago...