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Author Topic: Turning Back the Clock on Early Release  (Read 8173 times)
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Forevermah
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« on: June 08, 2011, 08:40:07 AM »

Turning Back the Clock on Early Release

by Malcolm C. Young

Wednesday, June 08, 2011 03:29

Wisconsin seems headed today for repeal of its 2009 ‘Earned Early Release’ law. But the new Republican governor and legislature should take a warning lesson from Illinois.


In January 2009, the Wisconsin Legislative Council established the Special Committee on Justice Reinvestment Oversight, a bipartisan, bicameral, and inter-branch advisory group. Working with research and analysis produced by experts from the Pew Public Safety Initiative, the Special Committee forwarded recommendations to the Wisconsin legislature.

Within a few months, lawmakers passed, and then-Gov. James Doyle signed into law, reforms designed to control incarceration and save taxpayer money without increasing public risk.  Key provisions permitted reductions in time served by 15%-33% for about 3,000 of the state’s 22,000 inmates over several years.

Some Wisconsin politicians opposed “earned early release” from the start. Now, with a new governor and shift in control in the legislature, the Senate passed and the Assembly seems headed to pass, a repeal of Early Release.The final bill is expected to move through the Assembly today (June 8) and to Gov. Scott Walker for signing shortly thereafter.

Wisconsin policymakers―taxpayers―will now have to cope with the consequences. And if the experience of Illinois―Wisconsin’s neighbor to the south―is any guide, those consequences will be unsettling.

Lessons from Illinois

In September 2009 the Illinois Department of Corrections ended a longstanding “custom” of delaying the award of good time credits to inmates until they had served 60 days in the Department. This small policy change resulted in reducing time served for some 1,750 prisoners by an average of 37 days in a system from which about 39,000 inmates exit each year. The goal was to save tax payer money by reducing time served for prisoners going home anyway.

Dubbed by the media as a “early release program”―and a “secret” one besides―(it was neither) and poorly handled from a public relations point of view, the modest Illinois reform blew up in Gov. Pat Quinn’s face, nearly costing him a primary and general election, and forcing him to end both the modest reform and the larger 30-year-old “good time credit” program.

The state is now experiencing the consequences. In both states, opponents of “early release” repeatedly equated any shortening of time served with a threat to public safety: 

o   Gov. Quinn’s Democratic opponent in the primary and his Republican opponent in the general election bolstered their campaigns with claims that Quinn’s “secret” plan put the pubic at risk by letting prisoners out “early.”

o    In Wisconsin Republicans have been attacking Democrats with the claim that their plan is releasing “dangerous criminals … into our communities before they serve their sentences.”

Politicians in Wisconsin and Illinois are hardly alone in their adherence to the notion that public safety depends upon the convicted criminal serving every day of a prison sentence.

Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy’s June 23, 2011 majority opinion in Brown v. Plata upheld findings of a three-judge panel that California could safely reduce its prison population by some 37,000 prisoners over two years by expanding good time credits, diverting low risk offenders to community programs including drug treatment and electronic monitoring, and reducing the number of technical parole violators returned to prison.

Not so, declared dissenting Justices Scalia and Alito: despite their having heard  days of expert testimony supported by research and national experience the three judge panel’s ruling turned not on “fact finding” but on “their own beliefs about penology and recidivism” and should have been reversed for being contrary to the “reasonable policy view” that releasing prisoners short of the original term “represent an inherent risk to the safety of the public.”

No ‘Magic’ About Length of Sentence

 But nothing could be farther from the truth.  There is nothing magical or scientific about the length of a sentence imposed on any one convicted defendant, and for two reasons:

First, the laws legislatures pass to set sentence ranges for judges to use aren’t based on objective studies or research showing what is necessary to punish or change an offender or what sentence length will adequately protect the public.

They can’t be; there isn’t any such research.

Legislators write sentence length into law according to their own values or sense of past practices, or to an emotional reaction to “the crime of the hour” and often to appear “tough on crime.”

The arbitrary character of sentencing laws is revealed when the laws of one state allow probation or a short prison term for an offense that if committed in the next state incurs a mandatory or much longer prison term. This is often the case.

Second, the sentences a judge imposes, applying these arbitrary sentencing laws, are seldom based on any kind of fine line determination of what is necessary to protect the public.

Offenders who commit serious or repeat crimes usually get longer sentences and minor offenders often get lower sentences, but not always and not with any precision. Factors that control sentence length, even in a guidelines state, include criteria that have nothing to do with public safety: whether the defendant goes to trial or pleads guilty; strength of the evidence and witnesses against the defendant; value, if any, of the defendant’s information or testimony to the prosecutor; personality of the judge; attitudes and strengths of the attorneys on both sides, and even the extent to which a court’s docket is crowded.

A low-level repeat drug offender may go down for heavy time. A participant in a homicide who can help the prosecution convict a dangerous co-defendant may get a short sentence. That’s the way it is.

Wisconsin policymakers had what Illinois did not: a carefully researched and reasoned plan to release less serious offenders from an overcrowded system while subjecting them to enhanced supervision.

Still, they pursued policy based on myth after an election almost as vigorously as did their Illinois colleagues in the run-ups to two close elections.

In both states, the rhetorical weapons of choice were sensationalized, inaccurate anecdotes.

In Illinois,  news reports and partisan press releases by politicians claimed that the “secret” policy was responsible for incredibly short sentences for serious crimes, at least one murder, and a veritable crime spree by released inmates. These claims proved to be almost completely false (the murder claim was completely false).

In Wisconsin, politicians are deploying the same kind of sensational anecdotes and exaggerated assertions. For example, James J. Socha gained “poster child” status when he was arrested for what became a 12th conviction for an OWI (“operating while intoxicated”) in December 2008.

One political broadside credits Socha’s release in February 2008 after serving more than three years of a total eight year prison sentence imposed for his 10th and 11th OWI convictions to his ability to “avoid nearly 12 years of prison time” through “former Governor Jim Doyle’s failed Early Release program.”

But Socha’s time in prison was reduced under laws enacted in 2002-2003 to alleviate severe overcrowding following the state’s adoption of determinate sentencing, not the additional reforms enacted in 2009.

As an anecdote told to gin up opposition to “early release,” Socha’s story overrode consideration of the merits or comparative success of the 2009 reforms. In fact, while opponents of “early release” complained that after two years 29 of 545 released prisoners had been returned to prison, supporters argued correctly but with less effect that these numbers represented a 5.3% recidivism rate, better by far than recidivism for Wisconsin’s general prison population.

 

What’s At Stake

In both states much more than the end of one small contentious program is at stake.

In Illinois, the controversial Department of Corrections policy change had only a small impact on the corrections’ budget. But the governor’s suspension of the larger merit good time credit program in reaction to the controversy led to an increase in the prison population of more than 3,400, or 7.6% over 14 months,  leading to overcrowding and bound to cost corrections more than $85.9 million a year.

This number may rise because, having preempted corrections officials’ discretion in managing good time, the legislature ended its term on May 31, 2011 unable to agree on legislation that would reinstate some form of the larger merit good time program.


In Wisconsin, the Director of the Department of Corrections has  said that because Gov. Doyle’s early release program had released only 545 prisoners in two years (somewhat contradicting the image of dangerous released felons flooding the streets) ending the program will have little fiscal impact.

Gov. Scott Walker is reported to believe that increases in incarceration caused by longer sentences will be more than offset by a decrease resulting from falling crime rates.

Perhaps so, but if the last 40 years in criminal justice have proven anything, it is that policies, not crime rates, drive prison incarceration.

Consider Mr. Socha again: if politicians or political appointees continue to reverse or restrict the good time credit programs under which he was released “early”―not the 2009 reforms alone but programs in place since 2002―than the overcrowding that these laws and policies helped to reduce during the last decade is likely to return.

And if the politicians’ tough, angry rhetoric about locking up more drunk drivers for longer sets the tone for  decisions made by police, prosecutors, sentencing judges and corrections officials in even a small fraction  of the 40,000 OWI cases initiated by arrests for OWI in Wisconsin each year, the state’s prison population could mushroom.

Nor does sending more drinking drivers to prison necessarily protect the public.  Research shows that putting the money into police patrols, sobriety check points and ignition interlocks are more effective at reducing drunk driving than long prison sentences.

If Walker is wrong, of course, it will be the taxpayers and Wisconsin highway users, not him, who pay the price.

Malcolm C. Young is the Soros Senior Justice Fellow and Director of the Program for Prison Reentry Strategies at Bluhm Legal Clinic, at Northwestern University School of Law. He founded and directed (1986-2005) The Sentencing Project in Washington, DC.  He welcomes comments from readers.


http://www.thecrimereport.org/news/articles/2011-06-turning-back-the-clock-on-early-release
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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2011, 11:30:51 AM »

Excellent article.Thanks for posting it. I think long prison sentences add to the recidivism rate.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist or PHD or gazillion $$$ research project to figure it out. Just a little logic and understanding how people react to fear. Scared straight works! If they had released my son after 2 months in Statesville NRC at the very peak of his fear I guarantee he would have come out a model citizen forever. But instead we give long term sentences forcing them to face and overcome their fear of prison. Once the fear is faced and overcome going back is a bit easier to accept. Of course no one intends to go back but the "been there done that" mentality replaces the fear they overcame long ago. I know this to be true. I was locked up for 2 weeks in the youth home for being a chronic runaway over 40 years ago. Released at the very peak of my fear and vowed never ever would I do anything that could put me there again.  Time to try some new ideas but it's all become so political, so full of ego and $$$$. I recently read a press release from a State's Attorney's office "proud to announce so& so was sentenced to a term of"
 PROUD???

 Shame is more like it! Sending someone to prison for minor infractions or drug & alcohol abuse or for being mentally ill is a tragedy and should be viewed with empathy like any other tragedy. How sick that we allow them to brag and use a family's tragedy for another notch in their belt. We should be asking what are we doing wrong, how can we prevent more tragedy.  We as voters have the ability to change the "public policy" and that's where we need to focus our attention. Forget the petitions and trying to change the mindset of the existing batch of chronically unethical politicians who claim to speak for us. Let's find some candidates and work our butts off to back em!!!
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rottiemama2003
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« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2011, 01:21:03 PM »

Very well written article. explains it very clear hope someone is reading it and taking notes. I am glad he wrote that the person convicted of murder did not go free, that it was a lie......
Rottie
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Angela
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« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2011, 01:40:50 PM »

I couldn't agree more- "Very nice post"     wc6
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« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2011, 05:17:04 PM »

 wc6 i agree...and Veracity you are soooo very correct..

 wc30
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« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2011, 06:28:15 PM »

Wisconsin is about to kick the taxpayers right in the butt with this one. Wow.
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« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2011, 06:12:50 PM »

So is there any news on MGT in illinois yet???
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« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2011, 06:21:18 PM »

No. I wish there was! I am always looking for updates. I assume they will have to reinstate it or do something soon..the jails are clearly over.populated

So is there any news on MGT in illinois yet???
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« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2011, 06:27:37 PM »

I so wish there was some good news as well... My guy is always tellin me bout the rumors he hears in there... and last week at the Vandalia Work Camp they put a paper up on the bulletin board that sayed that meritorious good time and supplemental meritorious good time are suspended pending recent legislative actions... i was like sweet cause on the IDOC website it says its terminated instead of suspended and if its only suspended then the governor is making some kind of change... I dont know I dont want to get anyones hopes too high or anything but this is what my guy told me... and all the counselors at Vandalia had a meeting with the warden and everything... I dont know what this means but its what I have found out
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« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2011, 06:49:56 PM »

Its so annoying thats someone in every prison is still spreading rumors! My husband is still calling me telling me this and that and I tell him NOPE! I tell him IPT knows everything and if it was back id know first then him. Buts its sad some inmates have to spread untrue stuff to gets hopes of for nothing!
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« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2011, 06:55:31 PM »

well mc thats not exactly true either though because there has been a ton of people on IPT spreadin rumors as well
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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2011, 07:33:57 PM »

There are tons of stuff going around about MGT, who knows what is actually true.  My man keeps telling me the guards and counselors keep saying they HAVE to reinstate it, I am not getting my hopes up, it is just wishful thinking right now.  talk is cheap..lol i want to see it writing before I believe it...I pray they do reinstate it though hopefully before he comes home, which we have a few years left. 
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alrak1974
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« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2011, 10:54:56 PM »

My guy is in Vandalia as well. He read the memo to me over the phone that was posted from the warden. Today he told me that the CO's received memos that July 1st inmates are going to start receiving their MGT time slowly.
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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2011, 11:48:41 PM »

I don't doubt your lo read you a memo, or so and so heard from a CO...but until the Governor decides to sign something on the dotted line in ink, MGT isn't come back miraculously on any random first of the month. I have been here since late last year and so far it's always that MGT is coming back on the first of (insert month here) since last January. All those months have gone by and there is no MGT. Just because a Warden puts out a memo, a CO says it or your lo's cellie's second cousin's daughter says she heard it from her brother, it's all rumor until Gov. Quinn decides to make it fact.

That said, I HOPE that something is being worked on that will be submitted to the Gov. sooner than later but now that the most recent bills regarding MGT have been killed in committee this past May, I won't be holding my breath and believing anything until either 1. Mah or Daz announce it on IPT or 2. The Gov. calls a press conference and announces MGT re-instatement personally.

Lets not take this article that Mah posted and turn it into another "I heard MGT was coming back!" board. People will argue, rumors will spread and hopes will be lifted un-necessarily and she will just have to lock the board up again so no one can post and she will probably think twice before posting other articles relating to this subject. 
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« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2011, 12:17:13 AM »

I spoke with my rep today and he said his connection in doc told him since they we not able to reach an agreement in legsulation that idoc has been in contsct with the gov and they are just waiting on him to make a decicion but he had no idea when that would happen if it even does.My point is noone get your hopes up and dont believe all the rumors because that is all they are.
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Forevermah
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« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2011, 06:54:27 AM »

Just so you all know and understand this,  it's been said so many times but we'll say it again.  Quinn did NOT need this legislation to reinstate MGT or some kind of new program.  Had it passed I've heard, he probably wound not have signed it back in, because it was NOT the way he wanted it.  There is a committee working on this, and until it's right in his eyes, nothing!

Go back and read this article, Quinn's bid for GOV was on the line because of the MGT Push Program, he isn't going to bring any program back until he has all the i's dotted and t's crossed.

Calling everyday to Springfield, IDOC or whomever people call, isn't going to make Quinn reinstate it. It will let him know people are interested in it coming back, but he already knows that, trust me.   He's only going to do it, when/IF he feels a new program isn't going to backfire on him again and it's been said he may never sign it and that is straight from staffer's mouths.

It's been 18 months now since it was stopped, who knows how long it will be before it's back IF IF IF it's back.

I posted this article to try to help understand what is going on with both Wisconsin and Illinois.

We hope for all of you and your LO's that a new program surfaces, but nothing is guaranteed, just like MGT was never guaranteed in the first place, even if your lawyers promised it, they had to earn it!
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« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2011, 10:32:24 AM »

:wc188: we are baaaaaaaccccccccckkkkkkkkkk
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« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2011, 10:41:43 AM »

... I was wondering where you were Rottie !!! wc1
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« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2011, 10:51:06 AM »

been working had not logged in..but look like i was needed wc1
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« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2011, 10:56:52 AM »

My guy is in Vandalia as well. He read the memo to me over the phone that was posted from the warden. Today he told me that the CO's received memos that July 1st inmates are going to start receiving their MGT time slowly.

Thats the same thing my man said...sadly its not true!
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« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2011, 11:50:12 AM »

So True Mah, that's why I dont fall into the rumor mill because until I hear a press sonference being announced or a article on the front page saying it is back I dont even concern myself with all the I heard this and that. We all hear alot of things but the fact remains no MGT.
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« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2011, 08:40:25 PM »

I just tell my LO that I'll believe it when his feet hit the pavement on the other side of the fence. Until then, don't get his hopes up.
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« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2011, 06:01:33 PM »

I just spoke with my son an hour ago.  He asked me to look over the boards to see if there was any mention of inmates being reclassified so that they could move them from one place to another depending on their status.  My son is at Dixon but was at Vandalia and work release prior to this.  If reclassification means he'd be moved from Dixon to Vandalia or Vienna, then I hope (if the rumor is true) they don't reclassify him.  Dixon is so close, Vandalia is 4.5 hours and Vienna might as well be on the planet Mars.
Has anyone else heard about the reclassification rumor?  I told my son to not believe anything he hears, even if someone said he heard it from a counselor.  I don't believe a damned thing that is said within IDOC anymore.
 
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« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2011, 06:12:24 PM »

What are they suppose to be reclassifying them from what to????   

 I think you gave him good advice, don't believe anything until you have the paperwork in your hands. 

Rumors fly fast inside, many are made up just to get reactions of some.
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« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2011, 08:05:09 PM »

My son is in work release in Carbondale and he told me on the phone yesterday that there was a memo posted on their board that good time was suppose to start up again in July. I told him not to believe it because it is not true, he said he didnt care one way or the other because he is getting out in October anyway, but i did tell him to get me a copy of it so i could post it on here. He is coming home this weekend for his first pass, im so excited and yet sad that my other son is not going to be here to see him because he is in the county jail waiting for his next court date.  wc74
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« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2011, 09:16:08 PM »

Ooh. That would be a neat memo to see. Don't let him do anything that would get him in trouble though!
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« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2011, 09:21:30 PM »

My son is in work release in Carbondale and he told me on the phone yesterday that there was a memo posted on their board that good time was suppose to start up again in July. I told him not to believe it because it is not true, he said he didnt care one way or the other because he is getting out in October anyway, but i did tell him to get me a copy of it so i could post it on here. He is coming home this weekend for his first pass, im so excited and yet sad that my other son is not going to be here to see him because he is in the county jail waiting for his next court date.  wc74
That is crazy! I have also heard this...I seriously think the PO's just make this crap up &nd feed it to the inmates to keep them calm!!
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« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2011, 11:20:57 PM »

That is crazy! I have also heard this...I seriously think the PO's just make this crap up &nd feed it to the inmates to keep them calm!!
[/quote]


I soo agree with you! I told my man the same thing they just say that to keep them quiet.
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« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2011, 09:38:14 AM »

Well its one thing them saying it to the inmates. But he said they posted a memo.. we all sure would like to see that, I would believe a memo over hearsay. But its good you told your son not to believe any of it just incase its all bluff.
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« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2011, 10:04:31 AM »

Yes..... I keep getting asked by my L/O if I've herd anything. I told him the same "Don't believe it until you see it". Have a blessed day.
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« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2011, 11:02:27 AM »

 wc6 so hope this is true and not another rumor!!!!
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« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2011, 11:03:35 AM »

I just called and talked to a counselor at jacksonville and he said its just another rumor. He has not heard anything about mgt coming back anytime. :(
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« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2011, 01:52:42 PM »

that all sucks! i cant belive memos are being posted "just becuz" to me thats soooo mean to get our l/o hopes up like that, and then we have to tell them sorry babe no..
my papaz already knows its not and hes like me doesnt belive until it happends... so we just look at his out date as it is.
we just hope for the best prepare/expect the worst.

that way we already have the worst outcome in our heads so when something better happens we are happy..
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« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2011, 02:22:24 PM »

Believe it!!!!!they think it is a joke. wc21
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« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2011, 10:20:25 AM »

the rumors are all over southern illinois...I even heard it first hand from freinds and family members that work at different prisons and believe me the c/o's want the good time back as well. They (c/o) say the inmates seem to be better behaved when they have good time....so who knows. Hope its not a rumor....
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« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2011, 07:36:24 PM »

Of course they are more well behaved (when there's a chance for gt). It's probably why so many CO's and other employees tel inmates it's coming back. If they are under the impression they need to be on their toes to earn it, they are thinking twice before acting. Otherwise, they are going to figure they have nothing to lose and cause problems easier.
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« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2011, 09:31:56 PM »

i know my uncles and cousins wouldnt tell me something like that if they didnt believe it themselves. So it has to be generating from higher up....I'm trying to find where this is starting from because this is3 diff prisons and 4 diff people...ugh
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« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2011, 10:10:51 PM »

If it's one thing IDOC is CONSISTENT about, it is INCONSISTENCY!  wc1
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« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2011, 10:46:38 PM »

If it's one thing IDOC is CONSISTENT about, it is INCONSISTENCY!  wc1

Was there ever any doubt...it's the IDOC.....  wc61 
   wc35
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« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2011, 03:43:51 PM »

yea i seen my bf today at stateville farm and hes all like "its comin back in july they approved it everyone says it and its posted as a memo and even the warden told me cuz i clean his office" im like
"uhhhhh no its not official" hes like "dont belive what you read on the internet & on the blog sites" i was just like whatever i would find out b4 you anyways..... cuz he only been in idoc since may and hes never been to prison before so he dont know how the rumors are and how they say every month its comin back. so nobody really knows. its messed up i just wish they would say its comin back eventually  or not at all. b4 i thought it was coming back now i dont really know ??!! oh well
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« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2011, 06:36:46 PM »

:wc188:  Well i am on my way....... but i see that some don't believe the board okay... but the rumors can be all over the state of IL, but until Gov. Pat Quinn signature is all over the dotted line, it is not coming back. Remember no one was sure that Gov. Quinn was going to abolish the death penalty until he sign it. This is not different. You can go to the legislative website and see the bill in person and things that was sent to the gov. to sign. Please as i  have said before don't frustrate yourself with rumors.

Rottie
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« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2011, 01:31:24 AM »

What is the website?  Are you talking about Illinois General Assembly? I can never find what I am looking for on there.
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« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2011, 07:38:58 AM »

welcome smiley, yes that is what i am talking about. did you type in good time in the search engine? it also shows what went to the gov for signature. Did you look on IDOC website under MGT/SMGT. Call the GoV Quinn's office and they will tell you also. I Quinn office says it as them where can you read it in writing. Then please post. The bills most of us was concern with is SB1560, and SB1562 you can find those by searching Illinois General Assembly. One of the House Rep is not going to complete is term, dont know who will take over in the fall by may be a key player.
Rottie
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« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2011, 04:21:50 PM »

Hello Rottie, Thanks. That is what I have been doing for the last 2 months. I can view votes, actions, meetings, etc., but I am new to all of this.  Where does it tell me what has been sent to Quinn for signature? On the IDOC site the mgt/smgt link just shows me a impact list in a pdf.  I have not called Quinn's office yet, I should. I feel that I do not know enough.
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« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2011, 04:35:04 PM »

Hello Rottie, Thanks. That is what I have been doing for the last 2 months. I can view votes, actions, meetings, etc., but I am new to all of this.  Where does it tell me what has been sent to Quinn for signature? On the IDOC site the mgt/smgt link just shows me a impact list in a pdf.  I have not called Quinn's office yet, I should. I feel that I do not know enough.

Nothing has been sent to Quinn, because the bills never passed and the legislatures are on summer break now.
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« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2011, 05:41:46 PM »

Sorry if i did not explain that it was killed in committee and they will not be back until falls....i do not want to sound negative, but don"t expect a whole lot then...This MY personal view nothing i read or cousin cellies, uncle aunt salliesue told me it is My personal view.
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« Reply #46 on: June 20, 2011, 05:57:41 PM »

it was not killed in committee it just didnt make it all the way through... if it were killed then it would have started all over since it wasnt killed it will start where it stopped in the fall
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« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2011, 06:01:21 PM »

it was not killed in committee it just didnt make it all the way through... if it were killed then it would have started all over since it wasnt killed it will start where it stopped in the fall

No, it won't start where it ended in the fall.   These will be killed in committee, they are probably done.
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« Reply #48 on: June 20, 2011, 06:03:44 PM »

I thought that since it didnt say sessions sine de that it would mean that is wasnt killed
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« Reply #49 on: June 20, 2011, 09:23:58 PM »

corrected me i am wrong, meaning we start from square one in the fall?
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« Reply #50 on: June 21, 2011, 09:10:33 PM »

yes, we start from square one..ugh...it really stinks..i have tons of things to write to committee about and some of my friends higher up, about new ways that may turn heads, BUT, it is taking me forever to get it all wrote up ..thank god for criminal justice school...lol...but yes, back to square one, things have to meet all requirements for IDOC AND the STATE..considering everyone keeps butting heads it is hard telling how long this could take..and will take..

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« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2011, 09:28:14 AM »

M, who doesn't really care since he won't get MGT if it returns, asked last night about the status because rumors are going crazy at BMR. He told his "friends" that he would ask someone who actually had a clue, and then questioned what IPT was saying about the subject.
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